Sarah Dumlao

 

Yousol: Hi Sarah, thank you so much for joining us for this interview with Apparelscapes. This is my first time interviewing someone so I may be a bit nervous.

 

Sarah: Of course, always happy to help AMM! I’ve done a few interviews like this too for the University so not to worry haha.

 

Yousol: Okay, we’ll get started then. Could you tell us a bit about your current position and how your journey towards it, has shaped you?

 

Sarah: Yes, so I graduated in 2014 and I’m going on 8 years of being in the apparel industry. Currently I’m a global supply planner at Nike, it’s a lot of supply chain management work. I am working on in-depth projects that specialize in supplying certain products. When I first started off, I envisioned myself as a buyer. Where I’m at currently, is definitely not where I saw myself. When I started as an intern at Disney, I did a lot of production planning where I got to see the product from start to finish. I got to sit in at meetings where we designed the t-shirts and other goods literally from the design sheet to the delivery of the product. So, I do see myself working more in the future where I can be a part of the product development. I’ll definitely say this, stay open-minded. I know as students you all might have a dream job or dream company, even a specific position you want to work in. But it’s much more helpful to keep your options opened and let your experiences guide you places.

 

Yousol: That’s great, thank you so much for sharing. So going back to the buying industry, I did see that you were a merchandising intern. Would you consider being a buyer because you do see behind the scenes with being able to choose which merchandise gets selected?

 

Sarah: Yeah, so merchandising has always been kind of loosely out there too. When I was doing merchandising as an Intern, it was very loosely termed. I honestly didn't know what to put on my LinkedIn. And that's why I just put merchandiser because I was just a general intern. So sometimes I would help out when I would sit in design meetings. For example, and they would have me print out literally, like, let's call it, the summer line. That was whatever year that was. And I would literally cut out the CAD stitch sketches and pin them to the board. And we would sit in the design meetings, and we would go style by style, and say, “okay, we dropped this or not like, what are the potential like, is this on trend.” And so that's kind of where I started with merchandising. It's very loosely based term. But other days, I was also in the marketing department where I was helping out with photo shoots. And, you know, kind of helping out the models, grabbing coffee, things that you don't really want to do as an intern. And sometimes helping out with, measuring the garments that were coming in. But yeah, a beneficial thing about being an intern there was sitting in on those design meetings for the merchandising. I guess those meetings were the most education that I was getting for merchandising. But yes, when you're thinking about merchandising going into like an actual career, it's very heavy on spreadsheets, and market trends and also consumer insights. So it's a lot of data, data, heavy work. But that's not what I was doing.

 

Yousol: So when you were starting with interviews to get hired at different companies, after that internship, were you able to share those experiences tie it together?  When we're looking at the buyer’s position and what that requires, not everybody gets that data analytical experience. And so, when applying to jobs, was it still helpful to go through different tasks that were not necessarily, pulling out Excel spreadsheets of, open to buy, etc., etc.?

 

Sarah: I would say if you're looking at job applications, and you see oh, I don't necessarily have that type of analytical work experience. You can speak to your projects that you're doing at school. Those are very valid things. And especially when you're starting off in the industry, people are not expecting you to have really, really good in-depth experience and you can only speak to your schoolwork and also with storytelling. If you can tell a really good story and sell yourself that's going to put you above a candidate that maybe has all of this other work if they're not really like good at storytelling.

 

Yousol: Okay, thank you so much. This was very helpful. I'm sure a lot of our students are going to appreciate this.

 

Sarah: I also do want to say one thing. That as women, we look at job applications or job postings, and we say like, oh, I don't have this, I don't have that. But if you think about or look at, like, what a guy’s in there with, confidence. What I am I trying to say is, if a man were to look at the same job, job posting and see, oh, I don't have this, I don't have that, they're still going to apply anyway. So put yourself in that type of mentality, you don't have to hit and check all the boxes. You're putting yourself out there to be able to grow into everything that they're looking for.

 

Yousol: This is so inspirational. Thank you.

Sarah: Yeah, I mean, I don't want to talk and make it sound hard. But, you know, there's a lot of really good things that you could read out in the world, especially about being a woman and a woman of color, what it can be like.

 

Yousol: I don't know if it's too personal. But do you want to expand on like your experience as being a woman in the industry and being a woman of color?

 

Sarah: Yes, for example, I'm Filipino. So I'm Asian, right. And I think that sometimes, culturally, you want to be modest. You just want to put your head down, you want to work really hard, and you want to work to speak for itself. But that is not the case when you're coming into the corporate world. You need to have the comfort and confidence. Yeah, getting ahead in life, or incorporated is more about storytelling. For example, who are you sharing all of your projects with? Who are you? You know, basically, I don't want to use the word boasting, but you're constantly selling yourself to the next manager or potential manager. And something that I had to learn the hard way, especially starting off as an intern, it's about the people that you're networking with, about the people that you're talking to and with. And work is never going to speak for itself. So, as being a woman, a woman of color, you really have to push yourself to be more outspoken in meetings, more outspoken when it comes to going to happy hours, or just talking to people one on one, or setting up one on one times with like super and upper management so that you can have that face time. Also, I would like to add, we shouldn’t have to change the core of who we are as women or people of color. It’s about finding the right balance of staying true to ourselves (being authentically us) and finding our voices.

 

Yousol: Wow, okay, that was very insightful. Thank you. Didn't even think about that, really.

 

Sarah: Yeah.

 

Yousol: Okay, great. So how would you advise to set up these meetings, like one on one meetings with superiors maybe they're not even in your department, but you're interested in moving in that direction?

 

Sarah: Mhm, so for me, this was one of my goals for 2022. I felt the need to network a little bit more since Nike is very much a networking company. So for me, I participate, and I volunteer with what's called the ASCEND network (Asians Connected through Education, Networking and Diversity), you can see it up in the corner right up here. And it's the Asian community at Nike. And so for example, it was just Filipino American History Month. So I volunteered with the Filipinos in that team. We put on an event, we talked about, like some certain products, and just through that, and volunteering, I was able to meet people, that I've never talked to before. And it makes it easier, especially because culturally, you already have that basis. And it's already such a welcoming community. And from there, I met a colleague, and she's working in product management. And I said oh, that sounds really interesting. So I talked to her and I was telling her where I'm at in my career right now. And so after the meeting, or after our event, I just went onto my calendar immediately and I was like, let's set up a time. I want to get to know you better and want to get to know what you are currently working on. And it’s just as simple as that sometimes.

Yousol: Okay, thank you I feel like we've covered some of the questions throughout the

conversation. Oh, I have an interesting one. What was your first mistake that you made at work? And how was it resolved? I think people can get a little bit fearful of making a mistake at work and it can be kind of dreadful. But everybody is imperfect. And that's inevitable.

 

Sarah: Okay, so I remember when I first had mine, I started off as an intern at Disney. And so I

was already thinking, oh, my gosh, Disney corporate, I cannot mess up. It’s as if you have the weight of the world on you. So, I was responsible for delivering products on time. And I remember thinking, if I don't deliver these products on time, I'm gonna get fired. It was not even like, I'm gonna, it was I'm going to get fired. And I was just getting into the job and getting into the routine of things. So I'm sitting in talking to my manager, this is probably not going to ship on time. And I was just so stressed out about this. And she said, well, if it's not going to ship on time, there's nothing that we can do. As long as like you have done your part, you followed up with the factories overseas, we can't push them any more than we can push them from an email, you know. And so, I know, it's not a huge mistake on my part or anything. But I think just understanding, like you said, people are always going to make mistakes. And I think for the most part, people are pretty gracious about understanding. You're going to find that there's people that's been doing this for 20 plus years, they've been in their roles for 10 plus years at the company for 20 plus years, everybody's going to make mistakes. I also think people are just very forgiving, a lot more than you would think. You're not going to get a grade on this at the end of the year. And maybe you are going to get like a review. But not unless you're completely messing up and people don't like you and your personality type. But that’s unlikely. It is really hard to fire people when you go into a corporate role. As long as you're keeping open communication, doing good on your day to day job, and there's no surprises, like you shouldn't really be making a big mistake. The only thing that is that it can be embarrassing. And personally, you might feel a little ashamed of yourself. But I promise, nobody is going to be on their bed thinking, wow, this person's an idiot.

 

Yousol: Right? I know, I read something online, and it said, in your 20s, you're worried about everybody, what everybody thinks about you, and then in your 30s, you don't care. And then in your 40s, you realize nobody was thinking about you in the first place.

 

Sarah: Exactly, exactly.

Yousol: Okay, what does work life balance look like to an individual who prioritizes excelling in the workplace?

 

Sarah: Um, so this is an interesting one, because I think work life balance, it's a twofold. One, what is the company culture? I’ve worked at some companies where the culture is to constantly be working, you don't have a second to three, you don't have a second to think. You're just constantly go-go-go. You’re coming in at 7:30 in the morning, and you're not leaving until like 7:30 at night? Does that necessarily mean that you're going to get promoted? Maybe not. It doesn't always work like that. It could also be, for example, when I first started at Nike, one of the things in our opening orientation, somebody came out and they said, you're setting the tone for your work life balance. If you come in on your first week, and you're staying late, working on whatever, the people around you are going to notice. So, you're staying like every every week or every day. And they might think, okay, maybe they want to be here that late. And then, that kind of becomes the expectation. But you basically set that up for yourself. If you want to stop at like 5pm every single day, that's up to you. It’s up to you, one, and two, it’s company culture and then also how you set up those boundaries, to make sure that you live outside of work. I really do believe though, nobody's paying attention to how hard you work. I really don't. What is going to make the difference is are you speaking? Are you making your goals known to your upper management, and it's really just having your voice to make your dreams known and put it out there that you want to get promoted.

 

Yousol: Okay, thank you, that's really great advice. Because there's kind of this disconnect, I feel like where on one end, people are saying, like, you have to work harder, and you have to work over what's required of you, to get a promotion. And then there's the other half, that's says, just do where the minimum, the bare minimum. And I think this is a great way to get into the balance of it. So you work hard in your role, but you also make sure that you're not overextending yourself. And you're making your goals known to your upper management, and you're speaking up in meetings.

 

Sarah: Yes. Yeah, forgot something, too. I mean, there are things where you're thinking, hey, I want to go above and beyond what I'm doing. Right? And that can be as simple as going to your manager and saying, I'm ready for more workload, I'm ready to take on more work. It doesn't necessarily have to be, I need to stay late or come in early.

 

Yousol: Yes. So vocalizing and actually connecting with the upper management seems like a really important role. Because you could be doing all of that without them knowing if you don't tell them.

 

Sarah: Exactly, yeah. Because like I said, your work is never going to speak for yourself.

 

Yousol: Okay, so we have to speak about it. Perfect. Is there any advice you could give us on? Maybe, you know, when we're applying to jobs, I know we kind of touched about it previously about storytelling, but anything else? And with internships, the application process, and the nervousness of getting into the whole industry.

 

Sarah: Um, I think it just takes a little bit of, grit. And also, if you look at my LinkedIn page, you see Disney and you see Nike, and you see these big companies, but you don't see the hard times in between, when I'm crying because I didn't get a job and all of the failed interviews, and you know, it takes a while. Some people have their break, right after college, and some people don't. You just got to keep persevering and keep sending the applications, often reaching out like more than ever. You keep hearing about the layoffs right now. And the common economy is really tough. It is kind of hard to find a job right now. But we have LinkedIn. Utilize your network, and then also utilize the fact that there are recruiters on LinkedIn all the time. And even if you don't know the exact recruiter that is posting the job, shoot a shot in the dark! Sometimes they'll connect you with other other people that they know are posting these jobs. Yeah, I think more than ever, it's really important to utilize the network that you have. Maybe your professors might have connections to industry alumni like myself, who know of job postings who are looking for people. And yeah, I would just say keep shooting your shot because eventually you will find somebody.

 

Yousol: Thank you so much for this. Okay, what was your favorite subject in the AMM department?

 

Sarah: I mean, I just was very, and I still am very passionate about the apparel industry as a whole. So I really was, into it all, but the classes that really stick out to me… The buying class, I know a lot of people hated the buying class, because it's a lot of math. I will say, I use that math a lot, in my job and in my role. And when I worked at hybrid apparel, I remember I had to refer to it and go, Oh, I remember learning in this in my buying class. Okay, I know how to do the calculations by hand, without a calculator or with a calculator, without an Excel, Excel spreadsheet, because I learned it. And I also really liked, it was one of the classes at the end of it, I don't remember the actual like the name of it, but it was more like international business. And it was a combination of just reading case studies about why different companies failed overseas or did well overseas. And I just always thought that was so interesting how culture outside of the US can affect business, if the company is US based, and they're not taking the time to learn the culture of other other countries.

 

Yousol: Absolutely, I remember taking this class as well, there was Dunkin Donuts that didn't do well, I believe in Indonesia, or something like that. You really have to go into the culture and see if it would even make sense because sometimes the food there is so much more inexpensive or their culture not really sweets based. I enjoyed that class as well.

 

Sarah: Yeah, yeah, I definitely felt there was the one story that stood out to me, I think was Walmart and how they failed in China, because they were bringing in, not local products. So, the people in that area would continue to go to their meat markets. And their fresh vegetables are locally sourced. Just thought that was like so interesting that they didn't take the time to really understand who they were selling products to.

 

Yousol: Exactly, even though they’re such a big company that would be investing so much money into entering that country in the first place. So that is very interesting. 

Sarah: I think one thing that I constantly have, I’ve always kept in my mind, especially when it comes to applying for jobs, this came from when I worked at Disney for a bit. We were working on something that was called hashtag Dream Big princess. And so I always tell myself, dream big Princess, go shoot your shot to the biggest company that you can think of or your dream job or whatnot. So whenever I see job postings, maybe I'm not qualified, or I don't think I'm qualified, but I wanted to share my talk and I'm going to submit my resume. And whatever happens happens. So just dream big, dream as big as you want, or small as you want, or whatever it is. But don't let that fear or even fear from other people get in the way. Ask yourself, what do you see yourself doing? And then also to be going into interviews and you're, you know, you think you killed the interview and you think, okay, I'm just waiting for the offer letter now. And then you hear back from the recruiter. They're say, Oh, we went with somebody else. That can feel so heartbreaking. Because it can feel that, I did my best and my best wasn't good enough. But you have to remind yourself, this is all about match ups. And even though maybe you clicked with the manager, or you clicked with the hiring person, maybe they're seeing something that you're not seeing, and you really have to change your perspective. Maybe it wasn't going to be a good fit for me long run. Maybe you were overqualified for the position. Maybe it was something personality wise, and you have to think of it as of matchups in long term fits. You want to make sure that even though this was your dream, dream job, maybe you dodged a bullet. Maybe this person was horrible in the long run. Maybe they were not a good boss. And you know, yeah, it's just all about changing your mindset when you are going on the interviews and you're not getting the jobs that you think you had.

 

Yousol: That's really helpful. I think it's nice to not take it personally because the goal is to see if we can work together, but it can feel really personal.

 

Sarah: Oh, yeah, definitely. Interviews were like, oh my god, I remember crying. For example, I was working at hybrid and I had interviewed for Disney and again, the interview went really well and the recruiter says, okay, we'll get back here in a week. I ended up not hearing back and I sent an email, to check on what happened. And she's mentions, you know, the team really liked you. But we went with somebody else. And I was just heartbroken. I remember I went into the bathroom at work, and I cried, because I was like, oh my gosh, no, I thought I had it, everything went so well. And then, a couple of weeks later, I got hit by the Nike recruiter. So it's never one thing. When that one door closed, another one opened, almost right away for me. So you never know when it's your turn.

 

Yousol: Right. And maybe this path is better for you than going back to Disney.

 

Sarah: Exactly, exactly.

Yousol: All right. Is there anything else you would like to share? Or for us to know about you or just in general?

Sarah: No, I don't think so. I feel like I think we've covered a lot of good bases. I guess one thing I got, I have a question on this. Is this going up on your Instagram feed or how is this going to be featured because your Apparelscapes? Right?

 

Yousol: Yes. Right. So I'm going to create a tech slide and then we're going to upload it on our Instagram. But we also have a newsletter going on. So you can actually sign up for that email list. It's on mybroncospirit.my shopify.com. I can send you the link and then it will be going through the Klayvo account so it's going to be on the newsletter and then the Instagram as well. Did you want any information from me or I can let you know when it goes up?

 

Sarah: I think I am following Apparelscape so I can just wait for the surprise.

 

Yousol: Okay, perfect. All right, thank you so much. This was amazing. We got so much information that's so helpful for everyone. I feel like just in general to not just AMM majors. I feel like any major could benefit from this interview.

 

Sarah: I'm glad! I'm always happy to help out and I always love helping the AMM major so if there's anything that ever comes up, you have my contact info.

 

Yousol: Thank you very much.

 

Sarah: All right. Well, thanks for your time. See you later. Thank you.

 

Yousol: Bye bye. Stop Recording